Topic: If any of you have been paying attention

[nickpapageorgio81]

Yes that is todays data, the numbers I gave were from '08 15% no insurance and around 6% unemployed

But I forgot if someone is unemployed conservatives don't think they count

If that is your "assumption" to my thoughts so be it.  I will admit that I do not believe a job is a "right."  I will also admit that sometimes some people get unlucky. For those that sabotage themselve, let them hit rock bottom so  they learn.

[Blackshirts]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


20,000 people a year die because they do not have adequate health insurance

[MIZtigersZOU]

"that isn't true, moron."  I just read papa's mind.

[Cowboys]

20,000 people a year die because they do not have adequate health insurance

Vote Libtard!  You will become EFFING IMMORTAL!!!!!11!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!

[nickpapageorgio81]

Vote Libtard!  You will become EFFING IMMORTAL!!!!!11!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!

[nickpapageorgio81]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


20,000 people a year die because they do not have adequate health insurance

How do you care about 20,000 when hundreds of thousands of abortions are performed in a year?

Our rights come from our Creator, not governments.  It says it plain as day for all to see.  HEALTH CARE does not EQUAL life.  As a matter of fact the majority of the founders looked at healthcare as a personal responsibility. For us to be free AND civil, we would have to take care of ourselves to a certain extent, right?  They also warned of what type of government the citizens would get if the Federal government ran healthcare. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y77i-AqIF20
All too easy

[NebraskaVol]

How do you care about 20,000 when hundreds of thousands of abortions are performed in a year?

Hmmmmmm....

Once the Dems push thru health care they can get to work overturning Roe v Wade. 

[Blackshirts]

nick what part of unalienable do you not understand?

[nickpapageorgio81]

Question I have is....If Medicare is so good, why not drop the qualifying age to 30 and allow their children to piggyback?  Obama has told over 100,000 Vets (ageism=eugenics) he cant afford to cover them anymore.  If that is the case, how is he going to cover "20 million?"  Taxes of course but if you haven't noticed our governments from federal to city like to spend more than they take in.

Me thinks you are desperately trying to avoid the fact that our government had their chance at "taking care" of the American peeps and have failed miserably.  Also, it says PURSUIT of happiness.  Nothing is guaranteed, you have to work for it unless you are happy with less which I have no problem with.  You are free with working at McDonalds your entire life while taking 6 cigarette breaks a shift.  Just don't expect, when you get cancer, to have free healthcare (LMAO) because McDonalds has crappy insurance.

[Blackshirts]

It says pursuit of happiness but no qualifiers on life, where as the Republican qualifier is "they must have enough money"

[nickpapageorgio81]

Hmmmmmm....

Once the Dems push thru health care they can get to work overturning Roe v Wade. 

He will avoid this. 

[Blackshirts]

No i wouldn't mind them overturning it, I am against abortion except in cases of rape, incest or the mothers life being threatened.

[nickpapageorgio81]

  A right is a principle that specifies something which an individual should be free to have or do. A right is an entitlement, something you possess free and clear, something you can exercise without asking anyone else's permission. Because it is an entitlement, not a privilege or favor, we do not owe anyone else any gratitude for their recognition of our rights.

 The right to life is the right to act freely for one's self-preservation. It is not a right to be immune from death by natural causes, even an untimely death. And the right to property is the right to act freely in the effort to acquire wealth, the right to buy and sell and keep the fruits of one's labor. It is not a right to expect to be given wealth.

[nickpapageorgio81]

The alleged right to medical care is one instance of a broader category known as welfare rights. Welfare rights in general are rights to goods: for example, a right to food, shelter, education, a job, etc. This is one basic way in which they are quite different from liberty rights, which are rights to freedom of action, but don't guarantee that one will succeed in obtaining any particular good one may be seeking.

 If I have such a right, some other person or group has the involuntary, unchosen obligation to provide it.

Moderate my tush........

[Blackshirts]

So a billionare's right to gather wealth trumps a single mother of 3's right to provide her child adequate healthcare?

Just trying to get this straight

[nickpapageorgio81]

So a billionare's right to gather wealth trumps a single mother of 3's right to provide her child adequate healthcare?

Just trying to get this straight

Loaded question if I ever saw one.  No her right to pursue a service is just as commendable as the billionaires right to pursue wealth.  You have NO LOGIC.  Kill regulation and allow insurance companies to go across state lines, and healthcare costs would fall.  That regulation was done by the federal government, and now you want them to take over what they messed up.  Cukoo, cukoo, cukoo. 

[Blackshirts]

No it is just we are looking at things in two completely different ways.  You see it as a service that is there to be profited off of like cars or computers and I see it as a necessity for a successful civilization, more along the lines of police and fire departments.

[nickpapageorgio81]

No it is just we are looking at things in two completely different ways.  You see it as a service that is there to be profited off of like cars or computers and I see it as a necessity for a successful civilization, more along the lines of police and fire departments.

Somebody needs to provide their service.  Good luck trying to get them to do it for cheap.  If you want to lump doctors with policemen and firemen, they will become unionized.  20 years down the road, healthcare could cost just as much or more. 

[Blackshirts]

Doctors want this to happen, it is the middlemen, the insurance guys, who are driving up the costs.  Doctors will and should make their money.

[nickpapageorgio81]

Doctors want this to happen, it is the middlemen, the insurance guys, who are driving up the costs.  Doctors will and should make their money.

Doctors want reform, sure.  They don't want THIS.  Like I said.  What will happen when doctors unionize?  Also, can you provide a link showing proving your claim?  Who cares what the doctors want.  The majority want THIS healthcare bill to be trashed and to start over.

[nickpapageorgio81]

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-health-care-reform-bill-welcome-to-the-biggest-tax-increase-in-u-s-history

After a test a teacher tells the class he is going to average out all the scores and spread them equally.  After doing so, the average grade is 83%.  Timmy really  scored a 67%, but because of others hard work, his grade went up 16%.  The teacher informs the class that the next few tests will be graded this way.  Timmy, figuring he could mooch off of others hard work puts in the same effort.  Chuck Norris on the first test really scored a 99%.  Because of the slackers not pulling their own weight, his score dropped 16%.  Chuck Norris decides that if he is not going to profit from his own hard work he will take a break and not put in the same effort.  The average grade of the next test is a 75%.  Moral of the story.....Chuck Norris kicked Timmy in the face at recess.

[Blackshirts]

Doctors want reform, sure.  They don't want THIS.  Like I said.  What will happen when doctors unionize?  Also, can you provide a link showing proving your claim?  Who cares what the doctors want.  The majority want THIS healthcare bill to be trashed and to start over.

http://www.pnhp.org/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/16/obama-health-plan-ama-support

http://www.americanheart.org/downloadable/heart/1244490158729AHA%20Priorities%20one%20pager.pdf

http://www.aha.org/aha/issues/Health-for-life/07-healthreform-overview.html

as for will costs go up?

http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/movabletype/mlm/healthscatter2.png

All of the others but mexico have government health care

as for how much doctors would make under government health care

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doctors-in-other-countries-make/

If you look at the chart that compares it to gdp we are over the line but not extremely, and as the article states that is due a lot to the cost of education for a doctor in this country, also the Netherlands who are 100% government insurance doctors make more

[Cowboys]

An 18 year old Conservative has no heart.  A 25 year old liberal has no brain.  Hang in there guys, you'll all get it one day.

[mpalmer4]

An 18 year old Conservative has no heart.  A 25 year old liberal has no brain.  Hang in there guys, you'll all get it one day.

It's ironic that an Oklahoma State fan qualifies age with things. (I'M A MAN. I'M FORTY)

Not surprising.

[nickpapageorgio81]

An 18 year old Conservative has no heart.  A 25 year old liberal has no brain.  Hang in there guys, you'll all get it one day.

This conservative is 29.  I'm a man I'm 29.  I used to live in my car and look at the world as a cruel unfair place.  I thought to myself "Why is there pain and suffering."  Then I realised that I turned into a liberal and me wanting people to be taken care of wasn't me having a heart.  It was me being selfish and stupid.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE0iPY7XGBo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s6U8GActdQ&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5lSbp31Cow             
Reagan wins......hands down