Author Topic: 2016 Olympics to be Close;  (Read 880 times)

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Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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2016 Olympics to be Close;
« on: September 11, 2009, 04:32:55 AM »
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4462653

so do you guys like the trend of leaders of countries lobbying and then votes coming on for that country?

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2009, 02:25:05 PM »
I don't expect Rio or Tokyo to win the bid.  Brazil has their hands full with the 2014 World Cup, they have a ton of money invested in that already and they're not the wealthiest country in the world so pulling off both of the world's premier international competitions is asking too much.  Tokyo's bid seems just like New York's bid a few years ago where the logistics just don't work out, the city is too massively crowded to be begin with.  Having been to the Olympics before, I can attest to the unbelievable, unimaginable size of the crowds that will be there. 

I really thinks it's down to Madrid and Chicago.  Interestingly enough, both countries are bidding for the 2018 World Cup just two years later, the World Cup won't be awarded to a city until a year later though.  Typically, when the US throws around the money and influence, we generally get events like this.  I think Chicago wins it, and Spain fights it out with England for the consolation prize, the World Cup.  The WC is probably a better event to host anyway because it doesn't cost as much money, you don't have to build billions of dollars worth on construction that you're never going to use again and you can use stadiums you already have, there's more money to be made and it goes to more than one city.  Also, it's arguably a bigger event.

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2009, 08:00:06 PM »
This would be great for Chicago since that means Obama can pump in $$$ for the 2016 Olympics...what about people oustide of Chicago?

I'd rather see another World Cup here in the US for 2018 than another costly Olympics..we clearly have the venues for that and Seattle better be included in those cities that would host World Cup games.  I personally think that Seattle deserves the bid.

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2009, 01:33:17 AM »
My friends in Chicago dont want the Olympics and while it be cool im more for the World Cup again especially since how cool it was in '94. Just imagine the venues for the potential WC oh boy. Thats whats great about this country is we have so many different venues and places to hold like you want altitude we could have a site in Denver, rain Seattle etc etc. Im more for the WC than the Olympics which dont get me wrong I like but given the two soccer for a month please.

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2009, 03:37:40 PM »
With the Olympics, you have to build so much crap that's never gonna get used again.  Google some news stories about the Bird's Nest in Beijing, that stadium is a drain on the Chinese gov't because it has no full time tenant and it costs millions to upkeep.  Track and Field stadiums are huge and incompatible with any other sport, they make terrible football stadiums, so you'd have to tear down and renovate half the stadium the way they did Turner Field in Atlanta.  Mostly, the Olympics is just an excuse to upgrade municipal facilities like airports, interstate ramps, light rail, etc.  The Olympics rarely makes money for the actual host city because they have so much invested in those upgrades and construction projects.  Local residents are basically under house arrest for two weeks while out of towners invade their city.  Unless you work in retail and need the business that the crowds bring, you stay home.  In 1996, my parents took two weeks off work during the games, we went on vacation to Florida for a week, then the 2nd week we just did stuff close to home, only once or twice did we go downtown and get in the mix and that was just to experience what it was like.  From the perspective of it coming to my town, it was great to have, experience of a lifetime, the long term benefits were great like getting an upgraded airport and highways, but it was a helluva pain in the ass when it was here.  On top of that, locals didn't really have any advantage in getting event tickets, you had to join the ticket lottery like everybody else.

Bone Crusher

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2009, 02:22:23 PM »
I wonder where they would put a track & field stadium in Chicago?  That doesn't make much sense to have the Olympics in Chicago.

I wonder how much use the facilities are getting in Greece after the most recent Olympics there?

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2009, 03:23:57 PM »
For a country of 10 million people, the Athens Olympics cost over $11 billion to put on, that's a little over $1100 per citizen. 

From the wikipedia page... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Summer_Olympics  It's too much to paste here, but if you go to the link it shows a chart with the current use of all the venues.

Legacy

Preparations to stage the Olympics led to a number of positive developments for the city's infrastructure. These improvements included the establishment of Eleftherios Venizelos International Airport, a modern new international airport serving as Greece's main aviation gateway[13]; expansions to the Athens Metro[14] system; the "Tram," a new metropolitan tram (light rail) system[15] system; the "Proastiakos," a new suburban railway system linking the airport and suburban towns to the city of Athens; the "Attiki Odos," a new toll motorway encircling the city,[16]; and the conversion of streets into pedestrianized walkways in the historic center of Athens which link several of the city's main tourist sites, including the Parthenon and the Panathinaiko Stadium (the site of the first modern Olympic Games in 1896).[17][18] All of the above infrastructure is still in use to this day, and there have been continued expansions and proposals to expand Athens' metro, tram, suburban rail and motorway network, the airport, as well as further plans to pedestrianize more thoroughfares in the historic center of Athens.

In 2008 it was reported that almost all of the Olympic venues have fallen into varying states of disrepair: according to those reports, 21 of the 22 facilities built for the games have either been left abandoned or are in a state of dereliction, with several squatter camps having sprung up around certain facilities, and a number of venues afflicted by vandalism, graffiti or strewn with rubbish.[19][20][18]. These claims, however, are disputable and most likely inaccurate, as most of the facilities used for the Athens Olympics are either in use or in the process of being converted for post-Olympics use. The Greek Government has created a corporation, Olympic Properties SA, which is overseeing the post-Olympics management, development and conversion of these facilities, some of which will be sold off (or have already been sold off) to the private sector.[21][22], while other facilities are still in use just as they were during the Olympics, or have been converted for commercial use or modified for other sports.[23].

The annual cost to maintain the sites has been estimated at £500 million, a sum which has been politically controversial in Greece.[19], though it should be noted that many of these facilities are now under the control of domestic sporting clubs and organizations or the private sector.

Bone Crusher

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2009, 03:44:40 PM »
It looks like the Greeks put the new infrastructure into good use and the Olympic Village was sold to low income residents.

I feel that Seattle would be a better host city and the money that would be pumped into that city would be well worth it.  They could use the money to renovate Husky Stadium and build up their mass transit network with help from the Feds.  I'm still having a hard time seeing Chicago as a host city.

EDIT: Due to the state of Washington's current fincincal struggles, it's highly unlikely Seattle could host an Olympics anytime soon.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 03:48:52 PM by Bone Crusher »

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2009, 03:36:26 PM »
Wow!  Chicago was the first of four cities to be eliminated in the final voting.  The winner should be announced in about an hour.  If no city gets a majority vote, they boot out the lowest vote getter and vote again.  I'm stunned that Chicago was the lowest vote getter on the first tally, I figured Tokyo would be the ugly duckling of the group.

My vote is for Madrid, I've been there and it's amazing.  However, I think it's a slam dunk for Rio at this point.  We'll find out in about an hour.

Bone Crusher

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2009, 05:09:07 PM »
Rio gets the Olympics: http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4525513

This is the first time the Olympics is in South America.

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2009, 05:19:52 PM »
I'm glad it's not Chicago, they don't need it, it won't be much of a benefit for them, and it will cost more than it's worth.  I think Madrid would've been a better choice, Spain probably has more resources to throw at this than Brazil.

Bone Crusher

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2009, 05:56:18 PM »
I'm glad it's not Chicago, they don't need it, it won't be much of a benefit for them, and it will cost more than it's worth.  I think Madrid would've been a better choice, Spain probably has more resources to throw at this than Brazil.

Archi, Brazil doens't have to put in that much more $$$.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/02/olympics.2016/index.html

Quote
More than half of Rio's Olympic venues are built, including state-of-the-art facilities constructed for the 2007 Pan and Parapan American Games: the magnificent Joao Havelange Stadium (the proposed 2016 venue for athletics), the Maria Lenk Aquatic Center, the Rio Olympic Arena (which will host gymnastics and wheelchair basketball), the Rio Olympic Velodrome, the National Equestrian Center and its close neighbor, the National Shooting Center.

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2009, 06:53:19 PM »
Yes they do!  Venues are the easy thing to build, they aren't the most expensive part of this.  Roads, airports, transportation, hotels, security... those are the things that I thing Madrid would be more equipped to take care of than Rio.

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2009, 12:10:30 AM »
I think is a bummer on some levels and on others it may work out in the end since the US hopefully gets the 2018 World Cup as we've talked about or comes back stronger with a 2020 bid. I understand that South America has never hosted but aren't there better options than Brazil? While there women are nice to look at, its high crime city and just how rich is the country? I'd think a Sao Paulo in Brazil would be a better city.

 http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/3325148

Brazil has apparantly arrived

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2009, 03:12:14 AM »
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=4526580

Gene WoJo, and read some of his other ones.

I would like to touch on that probably like others im not a fan of the IOC, Jacque Rogge. While it was extremly smart of the Brazil bid to have a map showing how Europe has dominated the placement of the modern Olympics and how Europe centric the IOC is. I read an article today that spoke of Anti-American sentiment that exists among many in the organization and has grown but also how North America lacks in the votes. But I think whether or not the 2016 games should have gone to Chicago or not I feel its a slap in the face that it finished fourth behind A) Tokyo (who only those who organized it wanted these games) B) Madrid (who used the former IOC President to sway voters emotionally) C) Rio De Janerio (crime and finances are going to be what I look for when they finally get to hosting the games). As someone who follows sports and agrees with the President when he says the best team doesn't always win. But its a slap to have a fourth place bid come out of all of this. If you'll remember the New York City bid was a third place team losing out to London (the winner) and Paris when they were determining the host for 2012. I may come off as America should get everything but thats not what im trying to say but it seems like having the reputation in the world has hurt the country in the last two rounds. While a hassel the games are its about country pride which Brazilians feel as they should today feel, Britans feel in a few years, Canadians will feel in Feb and finally the Russians in a few years. But the percived lack of respect to quote a movie is what hurts the most today. And yeah I love Chicago and have no doubt that the beaches of Rio are great but larger factors in that room today were at work...they always seem to be with the modern IOC.

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2009, 09:00:36 PM »
Finishing 4th in the voting doesn't mean they were the 4th most popular choice.  All the voters chose their home region in the first poll of voters, and the North American region had the fewest votes, so that makes the first round the most important round for politicking so your city doesn't get stuck in 4th.  Chicago could've been #2 on everybody's ballots, and would've gained more and more votes every round had they stayed in.  Look at the balloting for the Atlanta Olympics in 1996, Atlanta didn't get the most votes until round 3, when they tied for the most with Athens, but the tally kept going up with each round from the knocked out cities.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Olympics#Selection

Here's the balloting for Chicago http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Summer_Olympics#Bidding.  They came up 4 votes short.  Notice the difference is that there were 4 cities as opposed to 6 when Atlanta bid.  Was Belgrade, Yugoslavia ever going have a showball's chance of winning those game?  Plus, they split the European vote between Belgrade, Manchester and Athens where if they consolidated they could've had all those votes for one city, and Atlanta may have been the low vote getter.

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2009, 02:07:27 AM »
Just added it up a few minutes ago, 16 Olympic Games have been in Europe, 6 in North America, 5 in Asia/Australia, 1 in South America.  For the Winter Olympics, 13 have been in Europe, 6 in North America, 2 in Asia.  This is counting the ones that are awarded but not happened yet.  So 29 out of a total of 49 Olympic games have been in Europe.  No city in the southern hemisphere has ever hosted Winter Olympics, there aren't many options, but Santiago, Chile is putting together a bid for 2018, so is Queensland, New Zealand.  I can imagine Argentina putting together a bid for the winter games.

I used to think the US was a little greedy by bidding for so many Olympics, but after looking at these numbers I don't think so anymore.  Only 3 US cities have hosted it, Atlanta, Los Angeles (twice) and St. Louis.  Mexico City and Montreal are the only other cities in North America to host.  Only three US cities have hosted the winter games, Lake Placid (twice), Salt Lake and Squaw Valley, though Denver was awarded the bid then then voters rejected funding later and the games were moved.  Add all this to the fact that every other World Cup goes to Europe, and it's an overwhelming majority that the world's biggest sporting events go to Europe way too much.

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2009, 04:20:12 AM »
Exactly, and this is what helped the Rio bid showing a map showing Europe didnt deserve the bid in 2016. I'd love to see Chile or Argintina get an Olympic but it'll be hard since continents usually dont get bids back to back. Queensland would be cool. The 2018 World Cup hopefully comes to America for the reasons you just mentioned Archie, even though I think the U.K. is going hard after that W.C. 

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2009, 03:19:19 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20091021/wl_time/08599193116200

Time to start and get your stuff together Brazil.

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2009, 09:36:02 PM »
This really could be a disaster!  I was talking to a buddy the other day who is planning on going to the World Cup in South Africa next year and I made the comment that I'd rather go in Brazil in 2014, but after reading that story it may not be the best idea.  Events like this are already catered toward people and companies scalping tourists for $9 bottles of Coke, $1000 a night hotel rooms.  It's not unusual to see a temporary 500% inflation in Olympics cities, just watch what happens in Vancouver in a few months, but that could be even worse when it's a highly corrupt and vastly disorganized country to begin with.  It just makes you realize, there's a GOOD reason why events like this always go to Western Europe or North America.  We know how to put on events like this, we know how to build an airport or a light rail, it's probably going to be us that the Brazilians come to for building theirs.  We know how because we've done without the excuse of an Olympics coming to town. 

The World Cup in Germany was a smashing success, largely due to the seemless movement of people.  They had a "Fan Mile" in Berlin that fit 1 million people!  Their passenger rail lines and hotels and highways were already in place, and just a little expansion was all that was needed to shuttle around about 3 million visitors.  There's no way Brazil will be able to do that!

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2009, 01:09:51 AM »
Exactly, keep your eye on this development

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2009, 05:26:33 PM »
It seems pretty irresponsible of the IOC and FIFA to award events to a country just because "it's their turn".  Having a suitable infrastructure in place and ready is a prerequisite for it being "their turn".  Countries have to prove their capability in hosting these events, the reason they never got the event in the first place is they were never capable of hosting.  If nothing has changed in your national infrastructure, why should the pattern of host cities change?  The IOC and FIFA have proven to be as disingenuous and corrupt with their motives as they can be.  They don't care about the integrity of the events, they just want a profit.  The spirit of the game has long been lost in their minds.  Despite human rights violations, including with the Olympic Games themselves, they awarded the Olympics to Beijing, and laughed all the way to the bank.  They care more about selling TV rights and advertising dollars than putting on a proper event.  In Brazil, all that money will go to line the pockets of a select few, and corners will be cut and construction will be shoddy and poorly planned.

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Offline architechguy

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2010, 07:16:55 PM »
Just like most things in our current economy, TV broadcast rights were paid for during the over inflated economic bubble we've had over the last several years.  The amount NBC paid for these games is not really "over market value", but it was unrealistically high.  Sometimes, market value and realistic value aren't necessarily the same thing.  It's a buyer's market right now, whoever gets the broadcast rights for the next few Olympics is going to get a bargain, which won't make the IOC happy but they ain't hurting for coin so I ain't gonna cry for them.  It does make me wonder about other sports leagues though.  The Big 12 is due for a TV deal negotiation in the next few years, the SEC negotiated theirs with ESPN in the summer of 2008 at the very height of the bubble and got over market value.  Good for them, bad for the networks.  I'm afraid that any league negotiating a TV deal in the next few years will not get nearly as favorable terms as they would have a few years ago.  So this isn't a problem exclusive to the Olympics.

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2016 Olympics to be Close;
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2010, 07:28:24 PM »