Topic: Obama selling you the same old Jimmy C.

[Bone Crusher]

And McCain attacked Obama for withdrawing from the public financing system.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09222008/news/politics/cash_dash_all_even_130189.htm

And McCain is using taxpayer money for his campaign while Obama hasn't done so.

Found another site with the facts: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7596690.stm (as of August 31st)

Obama: 0.83490356 percent spent

McCain: 0.87774983 percent spent

[GIBuff]

Obama is going to outspend what Bush and Kerry spent last election and still can't close the deal.

Big Campaign=Big Government=Big Taxes=Big Depression=Big Trouble

[Scarecrow]

I'm already planning on Obama winning.

  I went out this weekend and bought ammunition this weekend.  While I don't think they'll take our guns away, they can keep us from buying ammo.

Each time I hear something that will affect this freedom, I will buy more.

[GIBuff]

Crow, Obama will not go by force. Ammo cannot stop them for rewritting history. Bullets will not help put the constitution back together. Guns are not very useful for educating the next generation and breaking the indoctrination programs at schools and universities. You cannot force somebody to open their eyes to something more. Dodd/Pelosi/Frank/Reid/Obama will take what they want from you and the duped voters will gleefully give away what left of what they don't know they have, freedom.

It will be a dark time for the years to come. Hopefully for our sake we can resurrect the informed voter and vote our way back. Because there are enough patriots left that know the basic priciples of this country to not let it just die at the hands of liberals. It's not here yet, it is just a major defeat and continuation of the liberals campaign against freedom.

[Scarecrow]

you must have misunderstood me.  I'm not buying to one day remove Obama.  I'm buying because they can keep us from buying ammo.  They can't take away guns right now, but they can regulate who can purchase ammo and who can't.

Unless voting and election laws are reformed, I think the candidate with the most money will always win the presidential election.  People are so easily swayed by what they see on TV and attack ads.

I think McCain knew he couldn't outspend Obama in attack adds so he proposed early on to keep the election clean and put it in front of the American people in televised town hall meetings. 

Obama did what he knew what would win the election.  Call it smart.  Call it wasteful.  Call it deceiving. But in January we will call him President. (gnashing teeth) 

We'll see how it works out in the next 4 years.  I guess Colin Powell has confidence in him.  He probably had the same confidence in Bush until Spring of 2002.

[mpalmer4]

Unless voting and election laws are reformed, I think the candidate with the most money will always win the presidential election.  People are so easily swayed by what they see on TV and attack ads.

I think McCain knew he couldn't outspend Obama in attack adds so he proposed early on to keep the election clean and put it in front of the American people in televised town hall meetings. 

God damn it! Fucking read dude!  Have you not been paying attention over the weekend.  There was yet another report released that shows McCain's ads are AT LEAST 3-to-2 negative to Obama.  It was something along the lines of 71% of McCain's TV ads are negative and make attacks, while only about 50% of Obama's are that way.  That directly contradicts what you keep saying here.  But I'm sure you and GIBuff will find some way to argue around it about how it's a liberal conspiracy and Obama is the anti-christ.

[GIBuff]

God damn it! Fucking read dude!  Have you not been paying attention over the weekend.  There was yet another report released that shows McCain's ads are AT LEAST 3-to-2 negative to Obama.  It was something along the lines of 71% of McCain's TV ads are negative and make attacks, while only about 50% of Obama's are that way.  That directly contradicts what you keep saying here.  But I'm sure you and GIBuff will find some way to argue around it about how it's a liberal conspiracy and Obama is the anti-christ.

Hey now tough guy, try to keep yourself together. You are falling apart.

If Obama is running ads 3 times more than what McCain is. And Obama is only 50% negative. That means Obama has 2 times more negative ads than McCain has running on TV.

These figures don't count the negative Union backed ads and the MoveOn.org ads that are outright lies. Obama and the democrats are by far the most negative campaign and have run more negative ads than any campaign in history. Obama is continuing to lie and mislead more according to factcheck.org. When factcheck.org asked them to defend them they can't:

The MoveOn.org Political Action ad blames a banking deregulation bill sponsored by former Sen. Phil Gramm, a friend and one-time adviser to McCain's campaign. It claims the bill "stripped safeguards that would have protected us."

That claim is bunk. When we contacted MoveOn.org spokesman Trevor Fitzgibbons to ask just what "safeguards" the ad was talking about, he came up with not one single example.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html

[Scarecrow]

Your comment is one-sided.  You failed to include how much money both candiates have raised to date.  I will present data from CNN that shows money raised through July.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/money/index.html

Obama has raised $401,165,231 as of this typing compared to McCain's $171,092,498.

Obama has spent $335,292,072 while McCain has spent $148,436,425.

Obama has spent 0.83579544 of the money he raised while McCain has spent 0.86757997 of the money he raised.

Any comments GIBuff?  If you look at how much cash both had on hand, is it of little wonder that Obama has been buying a lot of commerical spots?

I think it says something that McCain has been outspent by $186,000 (more than his campaign has raised) and he's still in the race and still has money in the bank.

Obama has 66 Million left, McCain has 23 million left.  What can McCain do with 23 million in 2 weeks?  We'll see if he can make a late surge.

[Bone Crusher]

Speaking of guns, have you been seeing those ads where a hunter talked about Obama's support for the 2nd Amendment?  Obama does support more regulation in this case especially in light of the shooting on college campuses nationwide.  The guns in those shootings were purchased LEGALLY and that is what we need to work on...closing all those loopholes.

Obama is going to outspend what Bush and Kerry spent last election and still can't close the deal.

Big Campaign=Big Government=Big Taxes=Big Depression=Big Trouble

You are jumping the gun there.  Seriously, I think this election is done right now and it's only a matter before the results prove it.  Colin Powell might have put the final nail in McCain's coffin with his recent endorsement of Obama.  What Powell's endorsement does is that Powell believes Obama can get it done as a Commander of Chief.  This is from an exprienced military leader so that is a huge deal.  I'm sure Gen. Prateus will be able to explain clearly to Obama the consquences of withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1851966,00.html?cnn=yes

I agree with Powell that we have been seeing too much polarizing stuff these days from the Republican Party.  I am also bothered by McCain not knowing what to do with the economcy...that is where not having Mitt Romney as his running mate ends up hurting him in the end.  I will always support the Republican Party but those attack ads really did alienate me and many other Republicans out there.  The Republicans will need to clean house after this election.

[Bone Crusher]

I think it says something that McCain has been outspent by $186,000 (more than his campaign has raised) and he's still in the race and still has money in the bank.

Obama has 66 Million left, McCain has 23 million left.  What can McCain do with 23 million in 2 weeks?  We'll see if he can make a late surge.

Crow, where did you come up with $186,000?  It's more like $186 million in this case and that is a rather sizable gap.  What is unique that a lot of people have given small amounts of money to Obama's campigan and it snowballed from there.  That tells me a lot of people are just fed up with our government and despite Congress being under the Dem's control, the head of the government (Bush) and his party will take the fall.  It has happened in the past and won't stop with Obama.

[Scarecrow]

What was that church shooting in Colorado about a year or so ago.  A guy opens up on some people attending a church.  He was taken down by a woman security guard or was she an off duty police woman.  How many people did she save?

Bad people who want to shoot people will still find ways to shoot or kill people.  Taking away people's right to protect themselves is taking away a freedom no matter what you want to call it (regulation).

I grew up with a loaded shotgun and rifle next to the door and according to liberals, it's a wonder I'm even still alive.  I could have shot my whole family including myself and the pet bird.

[Scarecrow]

Crow, where did you come up with $186,000?  It's more like $186 million in this case and that is a rather sizable gap.  What is unique that a lot of people have given small amounts of money to Obama's campigan and it snowballed from there.  That tells me a lot of people are just fed up with our government and despite Congress being under the Dem's control, the head of the government (Bush) and his party will take the fall.  It has happened in the past and won't stop with Obama.

yeah, that's what I meant.  My calculator didn't go up to 186,000,000 so I left off a few 0's when I punched it in and forgot to add them back in.

I guarantee small donations from people isn't the bulk of where Obama's getting his money.  He hasn't shared where he got all his money so we can't really say where it came from.  The fact that he hasn't released it to the media may mean it took from some questionable donors that he doesn't want leaked out. 

There are already question about his connections with some people.  The list of donors may confirm some of those suspicions.  The race is still tight enough, Obama can't afford this to get out.

[mpalmer4]

No, that's wrong. You have to release anything over $200. The average donation of that $150 mil? Less than $100. That says to me that the little guy wants a change.

[Bone Crusher]

No, that's wrong. You have to release anything over $200. The average donation of that $150 mil? Less than $100. That says to me that the little guy wants a change.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[GIBuff]

No, that's wrong. You have to release anything over $200. The average donation of that $150 mil? Less than $100. That says to me that the little guy wants a change.

That is true. The issue is that it is unprecedented by an order of 3 times amount gathered by any other candidate ever. It seems a little fishy that Obama gets $100 from 1.5 million donors, when he couldn't get 75,000 to pay $100 to see him at Invesco and they gave tickets away at the last minute. There has been rumors of Saudi oil money coming in for Obama and I don't think it is any stretch that they have succeeded to split oversees contributions into non-trackable limits. What is troubling is that these contributions are bigger percentage than for any other presidential candidate.

[mpalmer4]

The only thing is that there is no proof. I think it would be difficult to do that personally, but I can't say that definitively. If there were some actual proof of illegal fundraising, I would very likely re-evaluate the situation. Until that happens, there's no reason to believe otherwise.

[GIBuff]

The only thing is that there is no proof. I think it would be difficult to do that personally, but I can't say that definitively. If there were some actual proof of illegal fundraising, I would very likely re-evaluate the situation. Until that happens, there's no reason to believe otherwise.

Newsweek has found some but no hard evidence of systematic fraud yet. Obama has received half of his funds from untracked sources. But McCain has had to return 1.2 million from foriegn sources while Obama has not returned any?
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE4942Z720081005?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22&sp=true
One thing for sure is that Obama has already broken a campaign promise of staying in the public funding system. Many more are sure to follow.

[Scarecrow]

There are ways around that.  A person can donate by using their family members or "paying" several agents to make donations for them.

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=unknown&search=Search

Interestingly, I typed in unknown for occupation and the democrats have a lot more donations than the Republicans.

I also typed in actor and the democrats are getting 1.6 million compared to .06 million for the Republicans.  That's no surprise.

I typed in athlete and Roy Williams gave Obama $2,300. 

This is a pretty cool tool for getting addresses to your favorite celebrities. 

[Bone Crusher]

What was that church shooting in Colorado about a year or so ago.  A guy opens up on some people attending a church.  He was taken down by a woman security guard or was she an off duty police woman.  How many people did she save?

Bad people who want to shoot people will still find ways to shoot or kill people.  Taking away people's right to protect themselves is taking away a freedom no matter what you want to call it (regulation).

I grew up with a loaded shotgun and rifle next to the door and according to liberals, it's a wonder I'm even still alive.  I could have shot my whole family including myself and the pet bird.

'Crow, are you saying that with regulation that there would be NO ammo?  I guess you want to keep those cop-killer bullets on the market when there are lesser bullets that will still do the job.

[Scarecrow]

'Crow, are you saying that with regulation that there would be NO ammo?  I guess you want to keep those cop-killer bullets on the market when there are lesser bullets that will still do the job.

Bone, are you going liberal on us?

[mpalmer4]

He's the only one being objective.

[Scarecrow]

  I guess you want to keep those cop-killer bullets on the market when there are lesser bullets that will still do the job.

I'm not talking about his entire argument for Obama, I'm just talking about this statement. 

I didn't realize the cop-killer bullets were ever on the market.  Using this as a way to scare people into more regulation by the feds sounds a bit liberal to me.