Author Topic: 2010 World Cup Thread  (Read 873 times)

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Offline architechguy

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2010, 01:16:48 AM »
Well that was a nad sucker!  The USA kinda got a dose of our own medicine. We were by far the better team, created far more chances than Ghana, however their 3 legit chances got converted into goals and our dozen chances needed a penalty call to turn into a goal.  We simply could not finish, plain and simple.  That's a recipe for defeat.

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2010, 02:10:15 AM »
Round of 16 Match-Ups:

June26:
Uruguay 2 Korea 1
Ghana 2 United States 1, Uruguay vs Ghana round of 8 match-up
June 27:
Germany 4 England 1
Argentina 2 Mexico 0, Argentina vs Germany round of 8 match-up
June 28:
Netherlands vs Slovakia
Brazil vs Chile
June 29:
Paraguay vs Japan
Spain vs Portugal

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Offline architechguy

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2010, 11:53:13 PM »
FIFA needs to address this issue... stat!  They're running the risk of being Nero playing the violin as Rome burns.  This World Cup is quickly becoming stained by the stench of bad officiating.  On all ends of the globe, people are talking about the terrible calls and FIFA refuses to even acknowledge that something is wrong.  MLS has even stepped up and offered to guinea pig some replay ideas.  FIFA likes to take the NFL-esque approach where nothing is an issue until they say it is, but they gotta do something now or they run they expose themselves as being frauds.  The last thing they want are member associations stepping up and challenging their autocracy.  All it takes is one member association, one TV network, or one sponsor to come out and say something they'll crumble to the fetal position in the blink of an eye.

Offline ebens311

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2010, 11:56:37 PM »
I hate both France and Italy with a passion, not missing them right now.

And my samba boys looked decent today.  They don't play the "beautiful football" that many are used to, but this is a younger team of guys who really aren't house hold names right now.  Robinho and Kaka are to an extent...but I'll take that and wins over too much fanfare and a disappointing loss (aka, against France in '06).

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2010, 03:54:48 AM »
The refs are the reason why soccer won't be #1 in the USA in our lifetimes.

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2010, 04:15:01 AM »
The refs are the reason why soccer won't be #1 in the USA in our lifetimes.

The NFL is the reason why soccer won't be number 1 in our lifetimes.  MLB, NBA, NHL and NCAA can't even challenge the NFL, so soccer doesn't have a chance.  That's not a problem though.  There's a good market share to be found in niche sports.  The NHL for example is far more financially stable than the NBA, though they don't nearly have the same TV deal as the NBA.  Soccer is never going to be more that it is right now, which is a niche sport behind those pro leagues (though arguably ahead of hockey), and that is just fine for soccer.  Even as the number 5 sport behind all the other pro leagues, there's still good money to be made.

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2010, 06:38:56 PM »
Round of 16 Match-Ups:

June26:
Uruguay 2 Korea 1
Ghana 2 United States 1 Extra Time, Uruguay vs Ghana round of 8 match-up
June 27:
Germany 4 England 1
Argentina 2 Mexico 0, Argentina vs Germany round of 8 match-up
June 28:
Netherlands 2 vs Slovakia 1
Brazil 3 vs Chile 0, Netherlands vs Brazil round of 8 match-up
June 29:
Paraguay 1 vs Japan 0, Paraguy 5-3 in PK
Spain 1 vs Portugal 0, Paraguay vs Spain in round of 8 match-up

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2010, 02:46:53 AM »
This is the best article I've ever read on USA Soccer...

http://soccer.fanhouse.com/2010/07/01/us-reversing-backward-player-development-system/

JOHANNESBURG -- The U.S. national team was a few seconds away from first-round elimination, and, on a couple of of occasions in the second half of Saturday's game against Ghana, a few inches away from the quarterfinals. We've seen enough close calls, and lousy calls, in this World Cup to suggest that advancement is almost random. Kick it off again and you'll see five or six different teams in the quarterfinals, right?

The U.S. national team's World Cup exit left more questions than answers
Here's a telling statistic indicating that the World Cup isn't so random after all. Just five nations have contested the past seven World Cup finals going back to 1982. That's 14 available places, hogged by Germany, Brazil, Italy, Argentina and France, all of which have appeared at least twice. That's not parity, it isn't random, and the streak may very well continue this year.

So there's clearly something that those countries (and a few others that have fallen just short) must be doing right, and for all the questions and consternation this week about Bob Bradley, his future and his decision to start Robbie Findley and Ricardo Clark, in the end it's about the players.

U.S. Soccer Federation President Sunil Gulati admitted as much when he met with reporters here in Johannesburg.

"If I coach the team that we all agree has the best players in the world, and whomever we agree is the best coach in the world has the No. 32 team, I'm going to like my chances. Because in the worst-case situation, I'm just going to say, 'Go play'," Gulati said. "Does a coach make a difference? Sure. But I think it ultimately comes down to players."  And he admitted what's obvious to everyone -- the U.S. does not produce enough world-class talent to compete for a World Cup.

"The expectations have to be realistic. The players that are representing the United States are not players at Arsenal and Inter [Milan] and Real Madrid and Barcelona and Chelsea and Manchester United and so on. The players we're playing against in some of these situations are," Gulati said.

The harsh truth is that when put to the test, Jozy Altidore and Findley couldn't finish, Clark gave away the ball and Carlos Bocanegra and Jay DeMerit were beaten (twice). They are the best we have. For now.

"Everyone in the world wants world-class strikers, and they're at a premium. And that's something, frankly, however we evaluate the coach in a short-term situation like the World Cup, the broader issue is we've got to get better development, better players at the other end of it," Gulati said.

Fans, observers and curious foreigners here in South Africa continue to ask how a wealthy, sports-loving country of more than 300 million people, many of whom play soccer, can't manage to produce a playmaking midfielder, a consistent central defender or a forward who can actually score goals. The answer isn't difficult to find.


Share4
We're contrarians. We ignore the metric system, enjoy free refills at restaurants and play football wearing shoulder pads and helmets. The way the U.S. develops soccer players also flies in the face of global custom, but in this case, it hurts us.

Across the rest of the soccer-playing world, player development is the responsibility of the professional clubs. We see the rich and famous turning out each weekend in red, blue, blaugrana and bianconeri, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Clubs big and small have reserve teams and youth sides for players at all ages who know that the path to the pros starts in the lower reaches of a given team's system. There, they learn the game from coaches employed by the team and play in local leagues or competitions featuring similar sides belonging to other clubs. Results aren't important -- learning to play the proper way is.

For the teams, the investment is worth it. Either they uncover their next generation of players, or they produce talent they can sell to other clubs. For the players, the incentive is obvious and the pathway clear -- as soon as you're able, get yourself into a club. Once there, the cutthroat competition to make it to the next age group or level creates the hunger and drive all the best athletes have. There's no coasting. That's part of the development equation. The cream rises all the way to the top, where national team coaches can select from the best professionals holding the appropriate passport.

"I don't think it takes a lot of watching to know that [Carlos] Tevez and [Lionel] Messi have a different control of the ball than most of our players," Gulati admitted.
U.S. Soccer World Cup

FanHouse has complete coverage of the U.S. national team, including full roster, schedule and story archive.
U.S. National Team

In the United States, which was without a viable pro league for so long, universities and U.S. Soccer have been responsible for player development and identification. The problems with college soccer are obvious -- players already are relatively old by the time they enter the system, matches and practices are limited, and the physical nature of the game (enhanced by unlimited substitutions) tends to stunt tactical and technical development.

For years, U.S. Soccer has sought out players through the Olympic Development Program, which required kids to compete for spots on district, state, regional and national teams at different age groups. The process was often political and expensive, and in the end had nothing to do with forging good soccer players, but rather picking a few who happened to impress at a tryout.

In 1999, the federation graduated its first class of players from its under-17 academy in Bradenton, Fla. The idea was that an elite corps of players would train year-round and attend school under the guidance of U.S. Soccer coaches, thus replicating the day-to-day environment of a club in Europe or South America. That first group included Landon Donovan, Oguchi Onyewu and DaMarcus Beasley. That was as good as it got. A few pros have been produced since, but not nearly enough to create the competitive environment that would enhance MLS or the national team.

"Success at one level doesn't necessarily translate immediately to the next level," Bradley said.

Youth soccer, so popular in the U.S. now since the 1970s, was disconnected from the top of the pyramid. There was no end to the development track. Therefore, the goal became to win now. Thousands of clubs and teams have been organized to win state cups and do well at an ever-increasing number of weekend showcase tournaments. Players were cut and added according to whether they could help a team win immediately, and because of the pressure put on coaches by the paying parents, there was little patience for long-term development. No other competitive soccer country cares so much about the results of youth soccer games and the standings of youth soccer leagues. Many don't keep standings at all. As a result, American youth players aren't coached with the future in mind. Why teach a striker how to play outside midfield as well, when you need that striker to score your goals in that big under-14 game on Sunday?

U.S. Soccer Federation President Sunil Gulati hopes to instill a new values in youth soccer
"It's about getting the emphasis to win away from the people that are on the sidelines," Gulati told FanHouse. "Any player, whether it's my 12-year-old or a five-year-old, when they go on the field, if they know which end of the field has got the goal they''re shooting at, they want to win. But it's about coaches and parents who want to do nothing but win."

Worse, the "pay-to-play" model, as Gulati called it, excluded many disadvantaged youth from participating in the competitions that would get them noticed by college or pro scouts. If Diego Maradona had grown up in the U.S., he wouldn't have been able to afford to play.

Finally, U.S. Soccer and MLS are beginning to change things. There is resistance from entrenched interests who benefit from the youth and college status quo, but most seem to agree that America has been doing it wrong. The powers that be finally are flexing their muscles.

"When you've been lucky enough to see first-hand what the level is like at a World Cup or at a Confederations Cup, your sense of where we need to go with players and how they move up the ladder and all the different factors becomes a little bit sharper," Bradley said.

MLS got the ball rolling slowly prior to the 2007 season, when it unveiled its 'Home Grown Player' initiative. Each franchise was required to start amateur teams at six age-group levels, starting with under-14. Some already operated youth teams that competed in various competitions. The new rule was more than a marketing initiative -- those local athletes who played a part in a given club's youth program would not be distributed through the league draft, but would be eligible to be signed directly to a pro contract.

In addition, the MLS club would keep a higher percentage of a homegrown player's future transfer fee (75 percent) than it would for a normal player. This year, MLS clubs are allowed to carry two homegrown players that do not count against the 26-man roster limit or salary cap. So far, nine players have graduated to their club's full professional teams. Clubs work to reduce costs through their own funding, scholarships or by limiting player contributions to cover some travel.

So why throw down lots of money to play for your local Real Xtreme Premiere Futebol Club, which just promises good coaching and access, when you can train and develop under staff hired by an actual professional team? Players around the world have never had to make that choice. The fact that American kids now can should make a world of difference.
"We haven't created sliced bread here. When we start seeing better players, that's the true result. So you do the right things and you hope it puts people in a better environment."
-- Sunil Gulati assessing the Development Academy's Progress
Later in 2007, U.S. Soccer launched the Development Academy, a new program for talented under-16 and under-18 players who would be removed from the win-now, tournament-oriented world of traditional youth soccer and placed in an environment that stressed training and learning. Existing youth clubs from around the country, along with MLS teams, could enter a team at each age group into the Academy. The players would be ineligible to compete in any other leagues or tournaments (they still can play for their high schools), and instead would play only 30 games per season against other Academy sides while practicing at least three times per week. The cost per player would be only the $5 registration fee required by U.S. Soccer.

"When you make the team, you're given a congratulatory letter, not an invoice," Gulati said.

"We interviewed 14-year-olds three, four years ago and found out that they played 114 games at one particular club -- a game every three days. 'How many times did you practice?' 'Twenty-five, or something'," Gulati told FanHouse. "I think we did a very, very good job of putting a program into place that created a better environment for players quickly. It's against the grain of many people that are involved in youth soccer. And we now have 160 teams, two-times roughly 80 clubs [77 in 2009-10], playing at two age groups, with a de-emphasis on results and a de-emphasis on number of games."

U.S. Soccer monitors the games, assigns the referees and makes its staff coaches available for advice and observation. The Federation said its coaches monitored more than 70 percent of the games in 2008-09. There is a national championship tournament, but it's relatively low-key compared to other national youth events and gives the players the opportunity to test themselves in a playoff environment. MLS clubs are placing their top youth teams into the Academy, and sides representing FC Dallas, D.C. United and the Chicago Fire advanced to this year's finals, which run July 10-17 in Los Angeles. That represents the beginning of MLS's key role in American youth soccer.

"I'm very, very cautious about saying how well it's gone," Gulati said when asked by FanHouse to assess the Academy's progress. "There's a very simple reason. We've created a better environment, so I hope we get better players out of that. But it's much to early to know what. We haven't created sliced bread here. When we start seeing better players, that's the true result. So you do the right things and you hope it puts people in a better environment. The reaction we've gotten from people in the soccer community is extraordinarily positive."

Be sure to stay with FanHouse for complete coverage from South Africa, as columnist Kevin Blackistone and soccer editor Brian Straus will be on location for the duration of the tournament.
World Cup Coverage

Additionally, in April U.S. Soccer appointed former national team captain and English and Scottish Premier League star Claudio Reyna as the federation's youth technical director. Reyna will be responsible for establishing a teaching curriculum for players and coaches.

All of these initiatives are still in their infancy. The countries still competing here in the World Cup, and many that have gone home, have been doing it the right way for a century. But fans frustrated by Saturday's elimination should take heart that the people running American soccer have finally seen the light, and as MLS continues to grow, its clubs' ability to direct more funding toward their youth sides -- and young athletes' interest in pursuing a career in pro soccer -- will continue to grow.

Eventually, down the road, it will pay dividends. Eventually MLS clubs should play the chief role in development, while independent youth clubs may continue to contribute through the Academy or some other mechanism. Obviously cultural issues remain, especially the one that seems to steer American kids toward structured play rather than the free-form pickup soccer that we so often hear benefits foreign players. But U.S. Soccer and MLS can't change decades of American habits. They can change the player pipeline, however, and transforming it into a club-based system that focuses on development rather than profit or results is the way to go. It's a long road, but it's the right one.

"Progress is not linear. France went home. Italy went home. The two finalists [in 2006] went home in the first round," Gulati said. "The more important part of the long-term process is that our cycles are at a higher level, that the play is better. Nobody needs to remind me that the first touch of many of our players is not what it is on many of the Argentine players."

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2010, 03:16:11 AM »
Watching World Cup soccer and some international sports like English and Spanish league soccer lately has taught me something.  Team USA's deficiency in overall soccer talent is really not a problem unique to American soccer, but an "issue" unique to American sports as a whole.  I use the word "issue" instead of "problem" to describe American sports because I don't want to suggest we have to change our system, it's not broken per se, I would describe it as functional and effective but very inefficient. 

We in America, as sports fans, do not encourage and foster youth athletic development among our teenagers and pre-teens.  Look at the way our system works today for mainstream sports.  A 12 year old athlete in America (whether he plays football, baseball, basketball or hockey) plays on a little league team, moves on to middle school and plays on a team there (if he's lucky enough to live in a school district that offers a team in that sport), then moves on to high school where he's hopefully in a 4A or 5A school district that gets scouted by major D1 universities or minor league farm teams, at the same time they're playing for elite and costly private club teams in the offseason.  If he's still in the system, he plays major college sports or gets a minor league offer to play for a team that has their own winning agenda, not an agenda of player development.  Then, if they're still in the system they get scouted by professional teams at the advanced age of 20 or 21 years old in a draft combine where the worst teams in the league line up to take the first pick of available players.

Compare that to the European and South American soccer model and it's far, far simpler and more efficient.  Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney, etc etc etc... they did not play middle school soccer, they never tried out for their high school team, they never paid thousands of dollars a year for private traveling teams, and their efforts were never rewarded by being drafted by the Pittsburgh Pirates or Detroit Lions only to waste their talent by playing with players who don't belong on a professional team.  By time Lionel Messi was 12 years old, he was discovered in Buenos Aires and scouted by Barcelona and signed to their development academy.  Wayne Rooney was 10 years old when he signed up for Everton's youth program, he was 16 when he made his professional debut for Everton.  In America, our players are never even joining the professional ranks at any level, in any sport until they're at least 18 years old, most aren't doing so until they're 21 or 22.  That's an incredibly late age in a person's athletic development. 

The difference is, American professional sports teams have a deeply rooted system of outsourcing youth player development to universities and school districts, and that system works tremendously well for the sports we already have.  Successful soccer teams development their own youth talent from an early age.  It's not a matter of which system is right or wrong, because both work for what each is trying to accomplish, but when USA Soccer is trying to compete against the world using a development program that is inherently different from the one they use, then we're playing against a stacked deck.  Until the US can find a way to make our soccer development system resemble that of the European or South American teams, or quit relying on the high school/university/pay-to-play club soccer program, then we're not going to be able to compete for a World Cup championship with Brazil, Argentina, or Spain and we'll never be more than a X-factor type team that is good enough to not be overlooked but not taken seriously as a contender.

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2010, 05:07:21 PM »
Round of Eight Scores:

07/02/2010 -
Netherlands 2 Brazil 1
Uraguay 1 Ghana 1 (Uraguay Wins in PK 4-2)

07/03/2010 -
Germany 4 Argintina 0
Spain 1 Paraguay 0

Semi-Finals -
07/06/2010: Netherlands vs Uraguay
07/07/2010: Germany vs Spain
« Last Edit: July 03, 2010, 08:25:01 PM by thedrUNKenLoper »

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2010, 06:38:49 PM »

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2010, 04:51:56 PM »
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/columns/story/_/id/5354167/ce/us/europe-dominant-once-again?cc=5901&ver=us

Interesting video on top of South American vs Europe debate which is 8 min long and then the content of the article is also pretty good.

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2010, 10:59:31 PM »
07/06/10 World Cup Scores

Semi-Final: Netherland 3 Uraguay 2, Netherland advances to first World Cup Final since 1978

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2010, 03:08:23 AM »
07/07/10 World Cup Scores

Semi-Finals: Spain 1 Germany 0, Spain advances to first World Cup Final

07/10/10 Third Place Game

Germany 3 Uraguay 2

07/11/10 World Cup Final

Spain 1 Netherlands 0 Extra Time, Spain first World Cup Title

Golden Boot (Best Player): Diego Foran, Uraguay; Golden Boot (Top Scorer): Thomas Mueller, Germany

Offline ebens311

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2010, 06:14:20 PM »
Forlan was a helluva tough player in that 3rd place match.  Playing hurt pretty much the entire game and he was on fire most of it.  I was really hoping that last free kick would have gone in for them.

OKAY...the final, was THE SINGLE MOST WORTHLESS World Cup final I have ever seen.  Howard Webb really lost my respect.  I really thought he would have gotten the "fake injury/fall/omgf he looked at me, card him" bullshit by the Netherlands (and Spain too).  At first I thought it was going to be that way, but then over and over and over just yellow cards.  There should have been at least 2 red cards before Extra Time.  Spain was the better team without a doubt (yes, I know they won, duh blah blah haha) but Netherlands was actually in that game as much as Spain was.

Regardless, horrible final to me...and I can't wait to be Brasil for the next World Cup ;D

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2010, 11:14:37 PM »
E, as a fan of US soccer I cannot wait for 2014 because I really feel the team is picking up their international play. and not happy about the Dutch losing to Spain who just did enough the entire tourney.

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2010, 03:41:41 AM »
Nigel De Jong should have gotten a red card for his ninja kick on Xabi Alonso, no question asked.  Maybe the dirtiest hit I've ever seen in soccer.  That would've changed the game for sure.  Also, Carlos Puyol should've gotten a red card for his hold on Arjen Robben's breakaway with about 7 minutes to play.  Everyone is talking about the Netherlands' dirty play, but in reality aside from the yellow (should've been red) card on De Jong and the yellow card to Van Bommell, all the yellow cards given to Holland were debatable.  Holland had a physical game plan, nothing wrong with that, they went over the line twice and got punished properly once, under-punished severely once, and overly punished about 8 other times.

Spain was the better team, and though I was rooting for the Dutch I was happy they won, but we I think the legacy of this game is being unfairly critical of the Dutch.  It was an even game, the Dutch had two golden opportunities to score, the same number of golden opportunities that Spain had.  In the end, they just couldn't get the ball from Spain for a long enough time to put enough quality chances on goal while Spain could.

Offline ebens311

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2010, 12:11:11 AM »
The issue I had, was the leaping and over acting of "fouls".  That what my biggest issue.  I want to see more yellow cards for crap like that.

Offline architechguy

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2010, 11:47:54 PM »
I made this point a few times at the sports bar during the World Cup, but I personally think that all soccer referees need to watch certain amount of rugby and American football games each week so they get a better idea of what grown men look like when they're legitimately being knocked to the ground.  I think soccer refs need some extra perspective, a human body doesn't go flying in the air when someone steps on your heel, and they don't go tumbling head over heels when their feet get knocked out from under them.  I don't have a problem with players drawing the foul by taking the contact and not fighting through it, but the exaggeration is just weak sauce.  It's unnecessary and easy as hell to spot when it's as unnatural as some of these players make it look.

Offline ebens311

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2010, 11:18:40 PM »
Ha, best idea I've heard in a while.  Seriously might actually help them...but it does involve technology (watching a television) so I'm sure the FIFA president won't allow it.  I'm surprised he allows games to be televised at all.

Offline thedrUNKenLoper

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Re: 2010 World Cup Thread
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2010, 11:22:35 PM »
It's something that everyone else even the EPL is going towards so FIFA is almost looking like they are behind the times which is the case.